Having been led here http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977227932 again by a Gather prompt, I reread the thread, with delight and wonder at the intelligence and wisdom displayed overall ... the title (HOW MANY GODS ARE THERE? 0, 1 or 2 ?) got my attention mostly though, because I have since "changed my own tune" as expressed in my own much more recent article and thread : GOD, ultimate truth ... God and god(s), less and lesser truths. ... in said article I wrote because of all of the confusion I have seen concerning many "Religious" views and the "conflicts" there-from as to the "nature of their (seemingly) differing God(s)".
As I read down this thread I copied and pasted the portions of comments that most impressed me, given what I wanted to say about it all in light of my latest "revelation" (my above linked GOD article).
I highly recommend that this article of Thomas' (the first link here) be reread in it's entirety, but for those wanting a "short-cut", at least, finish reading this comment. :-)
The abbreviated quotes follow: (with a few remarks of mine interspersed)
"" As I recall, the Hindu scriptures tell us, "How many gods are there? There are three thousand, three hundred and thirty-three. How many gods are there? There are three hundred and thirty three. How many gods are there? There are thirty-three. How many gods are there? There are three. How many gods are there? There is one." Thus the multiple gods of the Hindus boil down to just One. Isn't that interesting? It seems that ancient wisdom saw that people used and still use multiple gods to help them understand the many faces or facets of God. Many Christians believe in not 2, but 4 gods. The father, the son, the holy ghost and the devil. Christians deny having more than one God at the same time they are building Satan up as so powerful he is a worthy adversary for God. Jews and Muslims believe in only one. Several other monolithic religions exist according to what I have read. Donald Hawley, Jan 12, 2008, 7:10pm EST ""
The above is very related to the esoteric understanding of the "thirds" (1/3 or .3333x) of the Trinity or Hindu Trimurti) ... (+=-) of the BET. ImnsHO
"" However, the God of logic would, by it's very nature, be singular. The first cause, the uncaused case, the power of the universe, the universal intellect. I know that a singular God appeals to my sense of logic. James C., Jan 13, 2008, 1:46am EST ""
The very meaning of UNI as in UNIverse or UNIt, is ONE (1) ...
"" Thomas, if you go the the Enumu Elish, and for that matter most other Polytheistic Systems you will find a Single God in change with lesser gods doing the grunt work. The Christian Religion has as many, or more immortals than most of the pagan faiths.
Christianity is set up like a typical bureaucracy, there is the Bureau of Creation, the Bureau of Salvation, and The Bureau of Spirituality. They have names, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each of these departments of heaven have Thousands of Bureaucrats, Saints for the Department of Salvation, Angels for the Department of Holy Spirit, and this super mechanistic creation department that seems to enforce all the laws of physics and biology. It should be fairly easy to understand why there is so much controversy about the concept of One God when you consider that Angels, speaking to His Holy Highness in the early days of the creation suggested that humans should be prevented from becoming godlike, and God evidently agreed, commanding humans not to learn the difference between right and wrong or the secret of eternal life, "Lest they Become like Us," to quote the angels. Karl Leuba , Jan 13, 2008, 9:30am EST ""
Enemu Elish reminded me of the Sumerian Tablets which are the earliest known "writings" to which all of our present religious beliefs are derived from, and that which prompted my own "change in beliefs" ... mentioned earlier concerning my own linked article.
"" ... God has no such observable parts or constructs. To prove the existence of God it is first necessary to propose characteristics of God. The general proposition is "God is everything." This limits God to a singularity, there is only one "everything." It is impossible for there to be more than one god...and it is impossible for their to be less than zero god. Therefore, by your definition god is divided into two parts by the judgement of mankind into Good God and Evil God. God reserves to god the right to judge between good and evil. And we are back to the first crime. Learning to judge good and evil. My calculations indicate that 1+(-1) = 0. So, there is no god, or god is both all good and all evil. I still come up with a zero balance. So, I will conclude, there is One God, encompasing all good and all evil, or there is no god since all good negates all evil leaving only the neutral zero. Karl Leuba , Jan 13, 2008, 9:56am EST ""
The very deep and logical thinking expressed above goes well with my own view of (+=-)>(+/-) because the expression of duality as (+/-) actually does end up as the "math" of Karl's shows. It being a Binary system such as our digital computers use of 1 and 0 ... the "truth of extremes" of "polarization" ...
Yet with the allowance and participation of "THE" Spirit of GOD as the third part of the Trinity expressed as (=), we get (+=-) where Love bridges the Gap (/) of Duality (+/-) and resolves it's conflicts, allowing cooperative peace and synergistic creation of a win/win nature rather than the win/lose of dualism.
"" ... I still believe strongly that the "God Thing" is an innate "light house" guiding us even though we are incapable intrinsically of ever understanding or adequately verbalizing what "IT" is. We are veritable infants in the vast universe. Donald Hawley, Jan 13, 2008, 6:26pm EST ""
"IT" is the Spirit (=) withIn each of us ...
"" Everything that exists, that is real, falls into one of two categories - either material or spiritual. We perceive the material through our five senses. We perceive the spiritual through the faculty of our soul. One is as valid as the other. If we are physically blind we don't perceive through that faculty. If we are spiritually blind, that is if our soul is fettered by materialism, we don't perceive through that faculty. Thomas Millington, Jan 13, 2008, 7:32pm EST ""
"" ... The most prevelant belief, which of course can not be "proved," is that the "oneness" from which the many came and will return, is the one God most people believe to be "true." ... William Cottringer, Jan 14, 2008, 10:58am EST ""
"" ... Rather, Christians believe, correctly, that the devil WISHES TO BE GOD AND TRIES TO TAKE THE PLACE OF GOD. That's what makes him the devil because, as Christians know, there is only one God (correctly spelled with an uppercase "G"). ... Elizabeth V., Apr 26, 2008, 9:31am EDT ""
Well said, but what we believe in will manifest for us as our reality ... to believe in a Satan grants that thought power (FEAR) in our lives. IMnsHO.
"" The ancient Israelite concept of God was of a formless, unnamed spirit presence in creation, which exists equally in everyone and everything without any hierarchal placement, much liker the Buddhist concept. ... Bent Lorentzen, Apr 26, 2008, 11:44am EDT ""
Which may well show that the present Religious view of Christianity has been "contrived" (by "priests") into the hierarchy it has become where "they" have placed themselves as the "middle-men" (gods) between man and God/GOD for the their own purposes of power and control ...
"" ... Thus I see the ONE God as the TOTALITY of ALL from a UNIVERSAL perspective ... this of course does NOT in any way limit the possibility of anything OUTside of our UNIverse of consideration ... and at this point I would ask, why consider (seriously) any other, prior to getting a better handle on our own ? Therefore, in my estimation, there is no greater, nor more important (same thing I suppose I will be corrected), "number" than THAT ONE (1) !!! ... Jerry Kays, Apr 27, 2008, 10:22pm EDT ""
ONE (1) IS the greatest number in the UNIverse because it stands for UNITy ... all else is but a "fraction" of THAT ONE (GOD) ... IMnsHO.
"" Doesn't the Book Of Genesis say "And God Said Let Us Create Man In OUR Image" - which is a summary of the much earlier Sumerian creation story... The most ancient religions had multiple Gods, Gods with a hierarchy. Doesn't it seem logical , if you believe that these might have been people from an earlier more advanced civilization, that these Gods were only men after all... ... What would happen if something were to be found that proved conclusively that advanced civilizations did exist, that the Gods of old were real, that they did have flying machines.... all the stuff that scientific minds write about but are dismissed as being crackpots. It would turn religion upside down for sure... But just imagine what if....... Tony P., Apr 28, 2008, 6:47pm EDT ""
AWH ... that comment is the crux of my beliefs ... all should look into the recent (relatively) deciphering of the Sumerian Tablets such as done by Zecharia Sitchin http://www.geocities.com/sitchin_links/sitchin.html ...
"" ... I am positive (in my mind, and that is as good as anybody else's conclusion) that there are gods (under the One God) and that many of them are liars, and have even claimed to be God ... there are "realms" and "dimensions" beyond our knowing ... some "beings" of some of those realms most likely have the ability to manifest and unmanifest for the likes of us ... pretty miraculous stuff for the simple minded ... why they/we might even think one such was a god ... and if "miracles" were performed and that being claimed to be God even ... I suspect it just might be believed and the word passed on until writing allowed that method of continuation of beliefs ... IMnsHO.
Jerry Kays, Apr 28, 2008, 9:48pm ED ""
AMEN ... if I don't say so myself ! :-)
"" From what I've read even in Judaism, there were certain pre-Levitical sects who believed in 'El' and 'Asherah', God the Father and His female Consort. In the old testament, you have sons of God (by extension gods themselves to me) mating with women. The Trinity was developed, from what I've read, after the apostles and only became part of the orthodoxy with the later church fathers. So, the Biblical literature itself (prudence) coupled with experience where life offers hints and various experiences (skepticism) that there certainly is more at play here then One God. The old Gods never died....or so they say.... Kevin F , Apr 28, 2008, 10:12pm EDT ""
In effect even more support for what I am suggesting ...
"" .... Without God's wisdom, which he gives freely to those who humbly and sincerely seek, we will continue to be fooled regarding ALL information and influence about satan's existance and his potent abilities to deceive......Sandy A., Oct 30, 2008, 12:01pm EDT ""
And of course that was related to my most recent discussions with Sandy elsewhere ... http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977488818
Because this is such an important and interesting subject, I would hope that some few (at least) would be now inclined to reread the original entire thread, possibly continue the discussion here, and, for sure :-) ... read and comment on my own linked (in blue) earlier ...
Sorry about the length and complexity of this post ... as I said, it is more for the record than anything ... but for the willing I would appreciate any dialogue via comments.
(reprint from: http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977496659 )
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